Kurt Warner standing on the sidelines. A familiar occurrence for more than half of his career.
The biggest load of garbage to come out of the Arizona Cardinals run to the Super Bowl is that because Kurt Warner lead a team to his third Super Bowl, he is now a Hall of Famer. Really? How did that happen? The guy has been a full time starter for 5 of his 11 seasons in the NFL. That in itself should end the conversation. But I am going to hear from the moron patrol (NFL writers, sports talk hosts, and over-reactionary sheep) that he has gone to three Super Bowls and done it with two other teams and that doesn’t happen and blah blah blah. My response, so what? If you can not be a full time starter for more than half of your career you are not a Hall of Famer.
Kurt Warner is a God fearing man who played in the Arena League and bagged groceries until the Rams gave him a shot. Then Trent Green gets hurt and he takes control of a team with two Hall of Fame caliber wide receivers, a Hall of Fame, pass catching running back and stands behind an offensive line with Orlando Pace as it’s left tackle and leads the team to a Super Bowl. Truly, the season was impressive. And he is the guy who had to get the Hall of Famers the ball but we have been blinded by what might be one of the greatest individual seasons in NFL history. He has never come close to doing that again. Really, he hasn’t. He went back to the Super Bowl in 2001 and threw two interceptions that helped his team lose. It is not a major knock but it was par for the course in a year he threw 22 interceptions in the regular season.
Kurt Warner lost his job to Marc Bulger. Deservingly so. That is a knock. He went to the Giants and played 10 games but Eli Manning needed his reps to develop. Not Warner’s fault. He started that season 5-2 but lost 2 straight and it was over. That team was not very good. He then goes to Arizona where he put up the staggering records of 2-8 in 10 starts, 1-4 in five starts and 5-6 in 11 starts. And don’t give me that wins and losses shouldn’t count. If you are telling me his Hall of Fame candidacy is predicated on his team winning three NFC Championship games and one Super Bowl, I am counting other wins and losses. His raw stats are certainly not enough. This season was very good for him and this run was great but does that dismiss Kurt Warner’s 6 years of mediocrity?
One thing people love to credit Kurt Warner for is his accuracy. Well in 1999 he had 41 TDs and 13 INTs. We have been living off that memory for a decade. In 2000, he had 21 TDs and 18 INTs. In 2001, 36 TDs and 22 INTs. I will skip over the two years he barely saw the field in 2002 and 2003. In 2004, in his 9 starts he had 6 TDs and 4 INTs. In 2005, he had 11 TDs and 9 INTs. 2006 he had 6 and 5. 2007 he had 27 and 17. This season was 30-14. I will give him the last two years as slightly better. But looking at that, is that Hall of Fame worthy? I had to discount years he missed not because of injury. Joe Namath gets knocked, and rightly so, as the worst Hall of Fame quarterback. Well, he also was one of the biggest stars in a league that was growing and his win in Super Bowl III led to the acceptance of the AFL by NFL fans. He is in the Hall of Fame more for contributions to growing the sport than anything else. Is it fair? No. But he is Joe Namath. Tell me what Kurt Warner did to grown the sport? What transcendent thing has he done beside throw Touchdown passes to Issac Bruce, Torry Holt, Marshall Faulk, Larry Fitzgerald, and Anquan Boldin? Exactly. Nothing. He is a football player. And his candidacy should be judged that way.
Please take a long hard look at Kurt Warner’s stats here. After you have done so I am pretty sure you will agree. I find Donovan McNabb’s career to be impressive. The guy went to 5 NFC title games and a Super Bowl. He was the best player on his team, which is a consistant winner, for a decade. His career is not close to over. He will have more chances. But yesterday, we wrote his career off as not Hall of Fame worthy. Phil Simms had better career stats and a Super Bowl victory. If he doesn’t get hurt in 1990 and leads a team to a Super Bowl (not out of the question they started 10-0 before he got hurt) is he a Hall of Famer? Is this really how we judge these things? I am not a total stat guy but I have never felt watching Kurt Warner that I am watching greatness. He is not Montana, or Elway or even Troy Aikman. We need to take a step back and reevaluate this. Hopefully the five years after Kurt Warner stops playing will help my cause and give people a reality check.
I’m a big believer in true greatness only belonging in the HofF. However, Canton has never been about that. It values Super Bowls, a lot. He will get in. Don’t think he should, but he will get in.
I just finished reading Peter King’s column…there is hope..he doesn’t see it either
Kurt Warner is more of a hall of famer than Jim Rice and Andre Dawson.
/soapbox’d
Warner’s ass is grass.
Fetch…Kurt Warner isn’t even Jim Rice…he is El Duque
Player A: 165 TDs, 141 interceptions, 33000 yards, 61.5% completion, 3 superbowl wins, 0 MVP
Player B: 182 TDs, 114 interceptions, 29000 yards, 65.4% completion, 1 superbowl win, 2 MVPs
Roman, I ask you: which of those guys is a HOF?
Nick…Player A (Troy Aikman) never sat on a bench for behind Marc Bulger and Matt Leinart
He brought Jesus to the NFL. Every other player out there gives “all the glory to God.” But Warner introduced Jesus to the NFL masses.
El Duque. More like EL Dookie.
Troy Aikman fucking sucked. He rode Emmitt, Irvin, Novacek and that beast O-Line to Superbowl wins.
If Player A’s dogshit line is in, then Warner is in.
The Fball hall of fame is a joke anyway. He’ll make it. So will McNabb.
Aikman is a prime example of the players around him making the QB look better. That was a massive OL, and Smith and Irvin were definitely greats at their positions.
Thanks Nick.
/bastard
and the Cowfags defense had nothing to do with those titles?
Fine…but Troy Aikman was never benched…Troy Aikman until his concussion issues was a 65% plus completion guy…and Super Bowls do mena something…now Simms, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien and so on and so forth have won a Super Bowl..that does not make them Hall of Famers
Grading a QB on SB wins is like grading a pitcher on wins. He’s only part of the equation. Look at Big Ben and Flacco this weekend. They both played like shit but one of them was going to make the Super Bowl.
Dilfer’s cadaver fetish alone keeps him out of Canton.
RWH- none of those guys went more than once. Warner is going to get in because he threw for a bunch of TDs, yards, AND made the SB 3 times. They will look past the sacks, the fumbles, the INTs and the lack of starts. of course his lack of starts makes the TDs and yards look more impressive.
+1 Bo
Hef-I agree that grading on SB wins is stupid, so is Canton.
Plus he started five years after most QBs. He was, what, 27 when he made the NFL?
SO by starting at 27 that excuses his sucking from ages 31-37?
You’re overstating his sucky period. He sucked from 31-34. LIke your mom.
/Power mom burn
2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007….That seems like 6 years of sucking…
/Like your mom
/sorry..I know..I am better than that
/Like you wife
/redeemed
Should I declare victory now or would you like a few more chances to reuse my awesome joke? Take your time to answer.
“He brought Jesus to the NFL. Every other player out there gives “all the glory to God.” But Warner introduced Jesus to the NFL masses”
Read your Dan Jenkins, he describes locker rooms being divided tween the swinging stoners and the married to Jesus gang in the 60’s
/power wife burn
If Kurt Warner is a HOF’er, then getting into Canton is too easy.
/Like your mom
Hef…you shall never be victorious…Your new favorite team has a fraudulent Quarterback…FRAUD
Happy has been studying well under Roman. Couldn’t tell the difference between the two. Well played.
Brian – that comment was made tongue-in-cheek. The only reason I posted it was to attempt to get a +1 from someone who found it amusing. Thank you for pointing out the second way my comment failed.
Sympathy +1 SEA
RWH, why all the hate for Kurt Warner? Would it really kill you if he made it into the hall of fame?
Nick – I don’t need your fucking sympathy!
/actually, I do. Thanks, buddy!
Sportsgal…First off…nothing would kill me but cancer or a bus accident..besides that I am indestructible…but this Kurt Warner blowing is out of hand…Why not just put Jim McMahon in the Hall of Fame? My problem with Kurt Warner (besides the fact that he is a giant douchetard) is if you are supposed to be great, why are you not showing that every season? Why did it take 6 years to get it back? Now the easy answer is Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin but really, how does greatness not beat out Marc Bulger for a starting spot? How does greatness perform so poorly that a franchise goes out and drafts a quarterback in the first round to replace you? If you are so good how can you not fend him off for the first year and a half? I am cool with the Cardinals getting to the Super Bowl. It is good for football, and I am fine with Kurt Warner’s redemption (to a point) but people are canonizing him already. It was decided before the game that if Warner wins that game he is a Hall of Famer. If he didn’t win that game he was not. If he was not a Hall of Famer before he took the field yesterday he never was a Hall of Famer. Period. That is my problem.
If Flacco would have won yesterday, he’d be in the HOF too.
/Fetch
add me to the “aikman sucked” list…him and emmitt would’ve had awful careers if they didn’t have the greatest OL of all time and michael irvin.
but, to me, it comes down to expectations…we all know warner’s story, it’s fantastic, the american dream, and for that alone, his career is a remarkable success. but then couple that with the fact that, unlike almost every single QB in the HoF, he was saddled with a franchise that was beyond incompetence, regardless of WR talent, and he was the stabilizing force. tell me, was leinart playing this well with the same talent around him last year? what has changed since then? tim hightower?
is he HoF worthy? eh, probably not, but then again, neither is aikman. he’ll end his career as a fringe HoFer who had two highly successful stints for moribund franchises that were the slums of the league before he got there. whether or not that’s attributable to the team is not a factor because every QB is judged under that criteria.
let me tell you this though, big ben is going to get a lot of HoF calls when he retires, but is there any doubt that he’d be even remotely as successful without that outrageous D and reliable steeler running game that’s covered up his literally retarded playing style this far in his career? so who cares about the ‘team’ argument?
and one thing you didn’t mention were the years playing in the martz offense who’s ethos is downfield passing and INT’s don’t matter. i find it hard to hate on a dude where the scheme says throw deep all the time…risky throws the coach was willing to gamble with.
oh, and flacco is dogshit.
yeah spencer flacco was playing against the best defense in the league with a bunch of garbage around him. I’m shocked that a rookie QB didnt go 25-30 for about 375 yards and 3 TDs. Just astonished.
fetch…what i’ve been saying ALL THE FUCK ALONG was that flacco hasn’t shown a damn thing that he’s ever going to be an upper echelon QB…like you said.
he might be good, who the fuck knows, but what he’s shown us so far, and what last night confirmed, was that, RIGHT NOW, flacco is dogshit. notice the tense…not GOING TO BE dogshit, not WAS dogshit…IS dogshit. the ravens had no shot whatsoever to win last night and a lot of that was on flacco.
your comments on Warner are inaccurate. In 2000 regular season Warner was undefeated and as good as he had been in 1999 until he broke his hand. the game he broke it in was instructive. he was coming back from a 4 touchdown deficit and broke it on a snap on the goal line about to tie the game. He was the superbowl mvp the next year. so that is three straight years at a very high level. having lived through the Bulger controversy it was highly disputed that Bulger should take over. Warner then had another injury. One game in Phila when Bulger was injured Warner played with a broken throwing hand and would have won if not for several dropped passes by his receivers. Many of us who followed him wondered why he received no respect But whenever he has been given the starting job he has won and played well. He as above 500 with the giants too but they went with Manning when Strahan was lost for the season. the problem has never been with his play but with how he is perceived.
Warner’s second hand injury was thought by St Louis doctors to be career ending. You have an odd career because of the injuries, the near refusal of anyone even after two mvps to take him seriously and around it 3 1/2 years when he played as well as anyone has. How good were Holt and Bruce without Warner? They are good but had there best years with him. I bet that will be true of Boldin and Fitzgerald. Anyone who watched him regularly knows he has been unequaled in the ability to hit a receiver in stride. His time on the bench reflects more on the coaches judgment than Warner’s ability or on field performance. Had Green not been injured Warner may have never been given a starting shot.
I counted 2000 as one of his 5 seasons and I took the onus off of 2004…that still leaves 2002, 2003, 2005 and 2006…His prime years with no output..I am not saying Kurt Warner is Joe Flacco I am saying he is not a Hall of Famer
that was a pretty legit rebuttal. +2 John Henry.
Warner has the fourth highest career QB rating (one of the three ahead of his is Tony Romo). He has the 2nd highest completion percentage in NFL history. He is 1st all time in yards per game, he has two MVP awards, and he is going to his 3rd Super Bowl with a career record of 10-2 in post-season play.
Many will say it doesn’t count, but since Arena Football and NFL Europe are regarded as professional leagues (comparable to Major League Baseball in Japan) I include the fact that he still holds many Arena League game and season records and twice led is team to the Arena Bowl and he QB’d his NFL Europe team to a league championship. He is also one of 10 players in the NFL Europe “Ring of Honor” (read as Hall of Fame) and the ONLY QB.
Last and certainly not least is the issue of character. In an age when old-time fans bemoan the loss of star athletes as role-models, Kurt Warner is the real deal. Hold any opinion you want about his commitment to Jesus Christ except the opinion that its fake. When I look at Warner’s accomplishments in the face of how many times he’s been shown his career to be a cul-de-sac, I find myself feeling more positive and hopeful about my own life and its possibilities. I wonder if Kurt Warner KNOWS something very few of the rest of us ever will.
Jay…Football Hall Voters are not supposed to look at off the field character just on the field…that being said I will give Warner total credit as an exemplary citizen…as for injuries…Injuries and what ifs are what separate Hall of Famers from good players…Terrell Davis was an extraordinary Running Back but not a Hall of Famer due to longevity…I could give you the same arguments as to why Phil Simms should be a HOF too…injures, coaching decisions etc etc..I am not saying Warner is a bum..I am saying he is not HOF…if he is Hall of Fame good not player out performs him for a starting job..period…